
-------- TML Message #1 --------

Subject: *** ORIENTATION *** Traveller Mailing List
Date: 01 Jul 87 13:28:35 PDT (Wed)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 1

                                        
                 AN INTRODUCTION TO THE TRAVELLER MAILING LIST
                           FIRST POSTED: JULY 1, 1987
                          LAST MODIFIED: JULY 1, 1987

Hello everybody, and welcome to the Traveller Mailing List.

Please read this whole (3-page) document thoroughly (You'll only need to
read it once), and then make a hard copy of it and keep it for future
reference.  It *should* contain everything you need to start using (as
opposed to abusing :-) the Traveller Mailing List.

SUBSCRIBERSHIP

This all started June 16, 1987 with a posting to USENET, and already we
have grown to 44 members, with 10 more to be added as soon as their
addresses are confirmed.  As long as I am co-ordinating this list,
membership will be open to everyone for free (it's my personal labor of
love for the game of "Traveller").

The membership seems to be very diverse, and well distributed over the
continent of North America.  In the addresses I see all kinds of sites:
defense contractors, electronics manufacturers, publishers,
universities, and homebrew USENET sites.  We even have a couple
subscribers who know the people at GDW or who have been licensees of
GDW.  One has said that he can get timely information/answers direct
from the owners (But I'll let him identify himself).  That's really
exciting to me!

It is my sincere wish that we get the largest possible membership on
this list (the more the merrier), so feel free to tell others about it
that could be interested and have E-mail access.  However, since I
cannot be responsible for any transmission charges, the membership is
probably restricted to North America and those sites which shoulder
their own burden of transmission costs.

I plan to continue monthly "recruitment" messages to USENET, like the
first two, to inform those new to USENET or who have just begun to
deepen their interest in Traveller, of the existence of this mailing
list.  Also, I plan to have this list added to the "List-of-lists" that
appears on USENET periodically.

DESCRIPTION OF THE LIST

As you all know by now, this list exists to discuss Game Designer's
Workshop's TRAVELLER Science Fiction Role Playing System (what a
mouthful).  Discussion is intended to be unlimited and to people with a
broad base of familiarity with Traveller.  Subscribers can exchange
programs, news bulletins, new "rules", war stories, questions at any
level of expertise, answers, etc.

Also there are a number of you out there (you know who you are), who are
interested primarily in other gaming systems, but want to transfer
concepts embodied in Traveller to other systems.  Discussion about other
SFRP games is encouraged, but personally I wouldn't want them to greatly
overwhelm the Traveller discussion.  If a need appears for a
general-purpose SFRP list, I will avidly support anyone else's trying to
organize it.

A VERY BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO TRAVELLER

For those of you completely unfamiliar with Traveller, a short
explanation is in order.  Traveller is a set of rules for a Role Playing
Game.  Another common Role-Playing Game of wide familiarity is Dungeon &
Dragons by TSR, in which players attempt to guide fictional people (like
characters in a book) through a plot and setting set up by a person
designated to provide most of the setting and arbitrate the results of
player actions (the Dungeon Master, or DM).  What makes Traveller
different from Dungeons and Dragons is that instead of being set in a
medieval/magical/fantasy setting, it is set in a futuristic,
technological society of Interstellar Government and Commerce.  This is
the primary distinction, as both "games" exist to provide the basic
framework and rules by which each world operates.

An illustration: Dungeon & Dragons could provide the background for a
storyline such as any of the "Sinbad", "Conan", "Lord of the Rings",
"Eternal Champion" or other medieval/fantasy stories (to name a few),
while Traveller provides an excellent framework for stories similar to
"Alien", especially "Star Wars", and to a lesser extent "Dune".
Unfortunately for you buffs interested exclusively in "Star Trek",
Traveller in general doesn't mesh well with arbitrating that sort of
science fiction (but other gaming systems exist just for this purpose).

For more information on Traveller, you should look in your Yellow Pages
for the most sophisticated gaming/hobbyist shop in a nearby metropolitan
area, call them and ask how to get Game Designer's Workshop's "Traveller
Book 0 -- An Introduction to Traveller."  Other sources of Up-to-date
Traveller information can be found in "White Dwarf" magazine (an import
from the UK, as I understand it), and other magazines targeted at
Science Fiction gaming.  Naturally, this list will be happy to answer
any questions you have, too.

SENDING ARTICLES TO THE LIST

For those of you unfamiliar as to what a mailing list is, it is simply a
mail alias stored on a UNIX host computer.  Any mail sent to that alias
at that host computer is resent to every address in the alias.

There are two aliases which exist for this list.  The first is the
address to send any requests to add or delete a subscription, or inform
me that your account is moving.  All mail sent to this alias will be
sent only to me.  Many of you, who responded to the second USENET
article, have already used this alias.  Here is the "REQUEST" alias:

	UUCP:	  {decvax,gatech,hplabs,ihnp4}!tektronix!dadla!traveller-req
	INTERNET: traveller-req@dadla.TEK.COM
	CSNET:	  traveller-req%dadla.TEK.COM@csnet-relay.CSNET

All mail sent to "traveller-req" will be assumed private unless
explicitly stated otherwise: I will make a strong effort at keeping
traveller-req correspondence confidential.  You will not find your name
appearing in a list somewhere, if I can help it!

The second alias broadcasts all mail it receives to everybody on the
mailing list, including you.  This message was sent to all of you by my
mailing to it.  This is akin to posting an article to USENET, and so the
usual posting suggestions exist: do not flame (send those via direct
mail), and be reasonably brief (this means if there is a lot to say, go
ahead and say it; but if there is little to say, don't ramble).  Here is
the "BROADCAST" alias:

	UUCP:	  {decvax,gatech,hplabs,ihnp4}!tektronix!dadla!traveller
	INTERNET: traveller@dadla.TEK.COM
	CSNET:	  traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@csnet-relay.CSNET

The addresses on the list are as brief and as simple as I could keep
them, internet addresses if possible, so that the Tektronix mailing
system could choose the quickest route for each message (mostly CSNET
and UUCP, and a couple ARPA).  Since the mail is in effect resent by my
host, as long as you can reach the list here at dadla from your host,
then you can reach everybody on the list, regardless of the mailer
domain they are in.

WHAT TO DO IF MAIL HICCUPS (AFTER SENDING TO THE MAILING LIST)

Occasionally you may get a copy of your message regurgitated to you,
with strange messages such as "user unknown" or "host unknown", or
"message not delivered in 3 days".  If this occurs, PLEASE FORWARD A
COPY OF THE ENTIRE MESSAGE TO traveller-req, so that I can attempt to
determine why the address is bad, and if necessary remove the address
from the list.

WATCH THOSE CC:'S

When responding to any article received via the alias, look carefully at
who is going to receive it before letting your mailer send it.  It
wouldn't do to have a private response automatically and carelessly sent
to the whole list! This is why I have a "Reply-To: jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM"
line in the message header of all messages I send to the broadcast
alias.

A WORD ON MANNERS AND LIST OWNERSHIP

I know that everyone on the list is pleasant and excited in Traveller
and will use the list for sharing all the things that make Traveller
exciting, but....

There is no room on this mailing list for people who would destroy the
fun the rest of us are having.  If anyone on the list habitually resorts
to abusive language, misuses the list, or I receive numerous complaints
about them (sent to traveller-req), I will warn them by direct mail.  If
the situation cannot be resolved, I will remove them from the mailing
list.  All attempts at fairness and understanding will be attempted.

Furthermore, the existence of this list and the cost for it's
administration and existence is supported by Tektronix, Inc. and James
Perkins (me).  The fact that anyone is on it at all is because I want
you here to listen and to share.  If at any time I perceive a need to
discontinue the list for personal or employer's reasons, or discontinue
any individual's participation in the list, I must reserve that right
with no questions asked.  Sorry.

HOW TO GET OLD ARTICLES THAT YOU HAVE MISSED

I am going to *try* to maintain an archive of all messages sent to the
mailing list.  On a time-available basis, I will attempt to recover old
articles for you and resend them by direct mail.

LET THE GAMES COMMENCE!

All right folks, let's start sharing!

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
James T. Perkins		Traveller Mailing List Administrator
Tektronix Logic Analyzers	"Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP:	  {decvax,gatech,hplabs,ihnp4}!tektronix!dadla!traveller-req
INTERNET: traveller-req@dadla.TEK.COM
CSNET:	  traveller-req%dadla.TEK.COM@csnet-relay.CSNET


-------- TML Message #2 --------

Date: 02-Jul-1987 1141
From: "You can do things to a man, but you can't make a man do things." <baranski%yoda.DEC@decwrl.dec.com>
Subject: Who's Who in the UseNet Traveller List.
Archive-Message-Number: 2

Who's who in the Usenet Traveller Mailing list?

I'm interested in TRAVELLER, BILLION CREDIT SQUADRON, and FIFTH FRONTIER WAR,
and any other related games/scenarios.  Anyone want to try a PBEM game? I  was
running several groups of PBEM TRAVELLERS, but I could never quite get the
action up to speed.  If anyone is in my area, I also run a live TRAVELLER
group.   I'm also interested in swapping ship or equipment design rules or
designs.  I'll be more then happy to keep the archives, since I'll be keeping
copies anyway.

Characteristic Statistics:

Height:  5'11
Weight:  165
Eyes  :  blue
Hair  :  brown
Age   :  28, born 1958.1012
Status:  SO
Live  :  Concord, MA
Work  :  DEC Tewksbury MA.

Currently, my activities include learning to play the flute, especially
classical, folk, medieval, and traditional and contemporary music.  Singing
medieval music with the Society for Creative Anachronisms of Quintavia in
Marlboro.  Running a TRAVELER SF role playing game.  Learning about "A Course
in Miracles" at the Theosophical Society in Boston.  Contra dancing in Concord
and Cambridge.  Studying the Bible and other spiritual paths.  Trying to take
better care of my body through holistic methods.  I just learned how to brew
mead, a honey based wine, from SCA. 

At work, I work on the VAX Diagnostic Supervisor; the operating system that
Field Service uses to run diagnostic programs.  Actually, I'm sort of edging
over into systems management and tools support, rather then working on the VDS
directly.  I have two conferences called MYRIAD, tales of adventures in the
TRAVELER MYRIAD subsector of space, and CHRONICLES, other tales of adventures. 

I hope to be finishing up divorce proceedings soon, having been 'seperated' for
more then a year, but it keeps getting messier, and messier.  I firmly believe
that the current family court systems sucks, and that both parents should have
equal rights and responsibilities; non of this custodial parent takes all,
bullsh*t. 

Jim "Fitz Severin" Baranski DEC Tewksbury Ma


-------- TML Message #3 --------

Subject: World data in readable format
Date: 02 Jul 87 17:40:22 PDT (Thu)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 3


Here is a message I'm forwarding to the list (Let's get some discussion
started!).

> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 87 17:46:08 PDT
> From: reed!percival!leonard@tektronix (Leonard Erickson)

> You wouldn't happen to have sector data in computer readable format
> would you? One of my long-term (ie I work on it when I feel like it!)
> projects has been getting all the sector/subsector/planet/library
> data onto computer. Mostly, I've worked on world data.

Does anyone out there have a program for maintaining databases of worlds,
systems (like the Traveller Book 6 systems), subsectors, sectors, etc?
An if so, does anybody out there have a user interface to this database and
auto-generation systems?

Personally, I think that if people on this list could put their heads together
and come up with such a manager, written in a reasonably-portable style (C?),
we'd have something very useful.  I have already written some C data
strucures to do this, but the project seems a little too huge to tackle all at
once by one person.

 _	___
| |    / _ \   James T. Perkins, jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM, 629-1149
| |__ | |_| |  Tektronix Logic Analyzers, DAS System Software, Display
|____||_| |_|  MS 92-725, PO Box 4600, Beaverton OR 97075

Killed processes never die... They just go to the big Bit Bicket in the sky.


-------- TML Message #4 --------

Subject: Expanded service routines (Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, Merchant)
Date: 02 Jul 87 17:50:06 PDT (Thu)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 4


Here's another piece of mail I recieved in advance, as a topic for discussion:

> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 87 11:30:35 EDT
> From: Charles Martin <gatech!seismo!yale!martin-charles@tektronix>

> Topic for discussion: the expanded service routines (in _Mercenary_, _High
> Guard_, _Scouts_, etc.  Opinion: circular file.

> Using these skill generation systems usually results in a whole mess more
> skills than the basic system.  _Mercenary_ is the worst offender, but I'll
> use it as a whipping boy; you end up with characters who have weapon skill
> after weapon skill.  What happens in the game?  These characters, naturally
> enough, end up dying (sometimes literally) to use these weapon skills.
> This turns the game into an endless series of shootouts which reminds me of
> the old hack-and-slash.  Sure, there "really are" some skills which you
> might develop in the Space Marines and which might be valuable to a
> character, but why stop with _Mercenary_?  Why not break Computer skill
> down into VLSI, Op Sys, AI, whatever?

> The original system had the *advantage* (in my opinion) of giving
> characters characters relatively few skills.  I think this is a plus
> because (1) it gives players a free hand at coming up with a past history
> for their characters---no need to fill it out with lots of boring battle
> details.  Come on, how much "color" does ACR-3 give a character?  This
> leads to (2) players easily "encompassing" their character descriptions,
> having a solid idea of the character's background and talents, which
> contributes to roleplaying.  Too many narrow skills leads to searching down
> a list for a relevant one which serves more as a "magic item" for the
> character rather than an integral part of the character's past.  And (3) I
> think few skills leads to a basic assumption of competence for the
> character which contributes to fun gaming as characters are willing to try
> most anything.  If you break Computer down into VLSI and Op Sys, then how
> feasible will it be for VLSI-2 to try to reason with the "smart bomb?"
> Look at the descriptions of favorite SF characters at the back of _1001
> Characters_; this strikes me as the right number and level of generality of
> character skills.

> Another gripe I have is the tendency for Traveller to end up looking like
> Tractics (old TSR WWII miniatures rules) in space.  There's just way too much
> emphasis on weaponry and combat in all the GDW offerings for my taste.  Look
> at the covers of the new books---they tell the story as far as what GDW is
> concerned with.  I'd rather run adventures that deal with alien artifacts,
> political intrigues, or even plain space opera (blasters and light sabers).
> But these thirty-page weapon descriptions really get me down.  Who cares?
> Do people really run games where the players go down in their armored air
> raft and take out rebellious populations with Gauss Guns?  Boring.

I'll let the rest of you comment on this.

 _	___
| |    / _ \   James T. Perkins, jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM, 629-1149
| |__ | |_| |  Tektronix Logic Analyzers, DAS System Software, Display
|____||_| |_|  MS 92-725, PO Box 4600, Beaverton OR 97075

Killed processes never die... They just go to the big Bit Bicket in the sky.


-------- TML Message #5 --------

Date:  7 Jul 87 13:11 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E             <gatech!seismo!uunet!steinmetz!csbvax!DAVISJE@tektronix>
Subject: Traveller submission
Archive-Message-Number: 5


Date:  7-JUL-1987 09:04
>From: Jon Davis (davisje@ge-crd.arpa)
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: Traveller submission
To: edison!uvacs!ncsu!mcnc!decvax!ihnp4!tektronix!dadla!traveller@kbsvax@smtp@tcpgateway
Cc: davisje
- --------

> From: Charles Martin <gatech!seismo!yale!martin-charles@tektronix> writes
> Using these skill generation systems usually results in a whole mess more
> skills than the basic system.  _Mercenary_ is the worst offender, but I'll
> use it as a whipping boy; you end up with characters who have weapon skill
> after weapon skill.  

One rule I believe that gets ignored for the purposes of the expanded
character generation in _Mercenary_, _High Guard_, etc. is the rule 
stating that a character may not have skills or skill levels that exceed
the sum of the character's combined intelligence and education.  I am 
sure that many of these characters (perhaps even GDW's published 
characters) in some way violate this skill limitation.

> Why not break Computer skill down into VLSI, Op Sys, AI, whatever?

Good idea.  But wouldn't VLSI fall under Electronics?  There is no
reason why Computer couldn't become a cascade skill like Gun Combat
or Blade Combat.  What other types of subcategories would be useful 
for this cascade skill?

> I'd rather run adventures that deal with alien artifacts,
> political intrigues, or even plain space opera (blasters and light sabers).
> But these thirty-page weapon descriptions really get me down.  Who cares?
> Do people really run games where the players go down in their armored air
> raft and take out rebellious populations with Gauss Guns?  Boring.

I think the maturity of the players plays a major role in the type 
of game and characters they will create.  Younger players favor 
battle dress, laser rifles, fusion guns, etc.  Mature Traveller 
players tend to be more well rounded and can play diverse roles 
of scientist, diplomat, trader, and mercenary.

Request: Has anyone generated a more diverse starship encounter table?  

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Davis 				GE Corporate R & D
					Schenectady, NY
ARPA: davisje@ge-crd.arpa
UUCP: {decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!mcnc!ncsu!uvacs!edison!davisje

"You came in that thing?  You're braver than I thought!"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

- --------


-------- TML Message #6 --------

Subject: Traveller software
Date: 07 Jul 87 16:46:48 PDT (Tue)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 6


Hi everyone,

If anyone out there has any Traveller software, let's have it!  I've been
working on a big generation system myself, where you can generate whole
sectorsful of systems with the expanded system generation rules of Book 6
(Scouts), and am curious what others have come up with.

Mine is still in the design stage, but is based on a menu-oriented user
interface.  Users start off with an empty "quadrant" and can add up to 10000
sectors to it.  When the user adds a sector, the user can then expand that
sector and examine it in the sector menu.

The sector menu has a 4x4 grid of subsectors with the names and system
generation probability listed in each cell.  The user can navigate around the
cells and change the names or percentages.  ALternately, the user can command
the menu to generate all the systems in the sector, either in the basic or
expanded system generation systems.  If the user has chosen the expanded
system on an already-populated sector where the basic system was used, the
continuation system is used to bring the basic systems up to expanded
systems.  The program will take care of automatic X-boat route and trade route
generation, and sector/subsector capital generation.

The user can then choose to expand a subsector, which brings up a hex map of
all the systems in that subsector.  Here the user can alter names, etc. Then
the user can expand a single system and look at the individual systems in the
system menu...

oh well, enough noise for now.  Does anyone out there know of any Traveller
system generation programs that already exist, as opposed to my unimplemented
one?  Is anyone else working on one?

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
James T. Perkins		Traveller Mailing List Administrator
Tektronix Logic Analyzers	"Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP:	  {decvax,gatech,hplabs,ihnp4}!tektronix!dadla!traveller-req
INTERNET: traveller-req@dadla.TEK.COM
CSNET:	  traveller-req%dadla.TEK.COM@csnet-relay.CSNET

-------- TML Message #7 --------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 87 10:40:54 PDT
From: William D. Ricker <gatech!linus!nes!wdr@tektronix>
Subject: Re:  Traveller software
Archive-Message-Number: 7



>From wdr Wed Jul  8 10:26:25 1987
Received: by nes.MENET (1.1/4.7)
	id AA01299; Wed, 8 Jul 87 10:26:21 PDT
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 87 10:26:21 PDT
>From: William D. Ricker <wdr>
Posted-Date: Wed, 8 Jul 87 10:26:21 PDT
Message-Id: <8707081726.AA01299@nes.MENET>
To: jamesp%dadla.TEK.COM@tektronix.COM
Subject: Re:  Traveller software
Cc: traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@tektronix.COM
Status: R

James,

Years ago I had a subsector generator which did routes too.  It was in
some dialect of Fortran for the Prime 750, either FLECS or Fortran77.
I certainly don't have a machine-readable source listing anymore, but I
might find a listing if I look around.   If I find it, I'll let you
know.

I don't recall now if it was for book-traveller 2D (flat universe)
sectors or 3D sectors.  It did distribute an average+- number of planets
within a volume randomly, generate UPPs, and deduce trade routes
between planets based on distances and starport classes.  It was based
on old 3-book traveller, since Scout hadn't been Published yet.  ( I've
never bought it -- though I might, were I to need such a program again.
I'm a Traveller player these days; the campaign I developed the program
for never "got off the ground".  My next campaign as GM is going to
be Fantasy, of which there is a shortage locally.)

I don't recall whether I iterated through all possible coordinates
checking (random_number <= probabilty_of_planetary_sytem) or whether I
used a less naive algorithm with finer granularity of coordinate.  I
may have implemented the sensible optimization of calculating the
expected mean and standard deviation of the number of planetary
systems within the volume in question and then generating a single
normal deviate number for the number of systems to generate.  In any
case, the result was a list (array of 2 or 3 by N) of coordinates of
planets { (x,y) or (x,y,z) } and a list (array of 6 or 7 by N) of UPPs
and a matrix (array of N by N) of euclidean distances between pairs of
planets.  Trade routes were determined by a trade threshold, which was
I think a function of {starport-class x starport-class} to parsecs or
jump numbers.  A second function on {system_number x system_number}
compared the treshold to the distance matrix elements resulted in a
matrix of distances which was 0 if the jump distance was greater than
threshold and the jump distance if less than.  This was then the
adjacency matrix on the trade routes.

I don't recall if I used the CalComp Plotter routines to plot the stars
and traderoutes or if I just used printer-graphics and hand-charted the
routes from the matrix.  I do recall using color pencils to trace
maximal spanning trees of traderoutes to deduce spheres of hegemony,
which were often quite gerrymandered.  [sic: The man's name was Gov.
Eldridge Gerry, which he pronounced, I believe, as 'Gary' not 'Jerry'.
Trivia brought to you by...]

A friend, whose address I gave you, Paul Gazis, has a star charting
program for MS DOS hi resolution systems (in C ?) which does not
generate sectors, but will read a list of 3D coordinates and view
arbitary wedges from arbitrary points of view, with labels.  His
Varient traveller rules use 3D space for plotting planetary systems and
as many actual known stars as possible.  The regular packet trade
routes are less important in his game because (a) the PCs operate
outside of regular trade lanes, so don't care where they are; and (b)
most of space isn't covered by any government, let alone a large
empire.  (Technology levels of the largest goverment only approach
those of Book Traveller's empire: gravitics are not in use and FTL Comm
(hyper wave) is rare and for the largest governments only.  Within the
sector we're currently exploring with a sub-universe games master,
Glenn Blacow, things are even lower, around Tech Level 9-11.

BILL RICKER
William Ricker wdr@MITRE-Bedford.ARPA wdr@faron.uucp


PS:  According to our ARPANET name server, tektronix and dadla are not
registered .COM nodes, yet the return address arrives here as dadla.TEK.COM.
I can't tell if (a) our tables are out of date, (b) some router is changing
the return address beyond recongition [likely], or either dadla! or tektronix!
is calling itself by funny names.

This was sent as (local uucp gateway)!tektronix!dadla!jamesp .
We'll see if this works.


-------- TML Message #8 --------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 87 13:54:37 EDT
From: Tom Malaher <twmalaher@watale.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Traveller Supplementary Books (and more)
Archive-Message-Number: 8

How's it goin', eh?

I started playing Traveller back in High School, but then stopped and
have not done anything until just recently.  I wonder if some of you
more up-to-date types might be willing to express some opinions on the
supplementary books, (ie Book i, for i>3, and others like Spinward
Marches) for those of us who have not invested in them yet.

I wrote two quick little programs when I started to get interested in 
Traveller once again.

1) A program (in C) to generate characters (based on the procedure in
   Book 1.)

2) A program (in MacPascal) to generate sectors and the worlds therein.

>From these projects, I concluded the following:

1) Character generation

I agree with these opinions (from Charles Martin
	<gatech!seismo!yale!martin-charles@tektronix>)

> Topic for discussion: the expanded service routines (in _Mercenary_, _High
> Guard_, _Scouts_, etc.  Opinion: circular file.
> Using these skill generation systems usually results in a whole mess more
> skills than the basic system.  

And besides that, it makes the program to generate a player an order of
magnitue more complex (and it's hard to avoid spagetti code...)  Not that
I am lazy, but is the extra work worth it?  This is covered nicely in
the following: [my comments]

> The original system had the *advantage* (in my opinion) of giving
> characters characters relatively few skills.  I think this is a plus
> because 
> (1) it gives players a free hand at coming up with a past history
> for their characters...[at which time you may elect to add detail
or specialization to a skill, voluntarily limiting the character to,
say, Computer-3 (Operating Systems) IF YOU WANT IT THAT WAY.
> (2) players easily "encompassing" [grokking] their character descriptions,
> which contributes to roleplaying.  [this is the MOST important point]
> (3) I think few skills leads to a basic assumption of competence for the
> character which contributes to fun gaming as characters are willing to try
> most anything.

2) Sector/World generation

As far as Book 6 (which "jamesp" mentioned?) I have never seen this one,
could someone comment on the pros/cons of a more detailed system for
generating worlds?

Other stuff:
> I'd rather run adventures that deal with alien artifacts,
> political intrigues, or even plain space opera (blasters and light sabers).

In fact, I am working on a Scenario where an alien artifact is
discovered in the asteroid belt by some miners...but I am finding that
Traveller is not ideally suited to this scenario, because it presumes a
particular social setting and technology level.  I would like to have
this discovery made in the context of (more or less) the present
political and technological situation here on earth (20 minutes into
the future?) Can anyone recommend a character attribute/skill
generation system appropriate to this scenario?  (I have been looking
at Top Secret...)
- ---
Tom Malaher - `fortune | jive > .disclaimer`
Dept of Mech. Eng.; Univ. of Waterloo; Waterloo, ON; N2L 3G1
twmalaher@watale.Waterloo.edu
{allegra,decvax,inhp4,utzoo}!watmath!watale!twmalaher

I'm sorry, my memory has been shredded. - Lt. Col. Oliver North

-------- TML Message #9 --------

Date:  8 Jul 1987 18:02-EDT 
From: John.Pieper@n.sp.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Pulse vs. Beam Lasers
Archive-Message-Number: 9


In the Traveller Book, in the desription of intership combat, it says
	 beam lasers hit better than pulse lasers, but that pulse
	 lasers do more damage. One costs more than the other (I forget
	 which). But there is nothing in the tables or anywhere I can
	 find that actually gives a positive DM for using beam lasers,
	 or a positive damage bonus for using pulse. Is this handled in
	 earlier versions? How do other groups handle this?
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
John Pieper				 jsp@n.sp.cs.cmu.edu
Computer Science Department
Carnegie-Mellon University
Pittsburgh, Pa 15213
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #10 --------

Date: Wed, 8 Jul 87 23:51:45 EDT
From: Charles <gatech!seismo!TOPAZ.RUTGERS.EDU!mcgrew@tektronix>
Subject: Re:  Traveller software
Archive-Message-Number: 10

Hi,

   I also wrote a sector generator for Traveler, in pascal ages ago.
Also, a character and ship-designer program was written by Andy Duane
at rutgers in pascal.  I'll see what I can dig up...

Charles


-------- TML Message #11 --------

Subject: Re: Expanded service routines 
Date: 09 Jul 87 03:26:21 CDT (Thu)
From: Michael Rossow <rossow@umn-cs.arpa>
Archive-Message-Number: 11

I found myself frustrated with the huge piles of skills 
characters end up with when using the 'advanced' character 
generation routines.  The big thing those routines had going 
for themselves were the wide variety of skills they provided.

My way around this was to create new routines that generate 
characters with reasonably modest amounts of skill points, 
but which make available a wider selection of skills to the
character.

My players are happy with being able to have access to some 
of the strange obscure skills from the 'advanced' systems, 
and I'm happy as well, in that my games aren't overpowered 
with huge overbloated skill levels.  This seems to be keeping 
everyone happy.

- -Mike


-------- TML Message #12 --------

Date: 09-Jul-1987 1629
From: "Words should echo Truth; Words do not define Truth." <baranski%yoda.DEC@decwrl.dec.com>
Subject: Everything
Archive-Message-Number: 12

RE:  Traveller PBEM

Hmmm... Not too many bites on a PBEM Traveller game, oh well, just as well...

RE:  Space generation Programs

In the new (first/second) GDW Challenge magazine, there is a BASIC program for
generating Star Systems according to the guidelines of BOOK 6 SCOUTS.  I have
yet to type it in, but some day... 

RE: Traveller Chronicles:

If there is any interest, I have several tales of Traveller adventures which
I could post, if you think it would be appropriate.  What do you think?

RE: Advanced Character Generation Procedure:

I myself, like them very much.  They give more detail to the character so that
you can get a handle on it easier.  Then you have to explain all the twists the
dice have but into your character!  There is no such thing as an over specified
character.  It's like a polynomial approximation of a function, more data
points = higher degree polynomials = more accurate.  Of course the higher
degree polynomials are usually needed only for real convoluted functions, but
I've allways liked convoluted characters!  I have more fun explaining the dice
rolls, then throwing the dice rolls out because they don't fit my (at times,
limited) imagination. 

I'm also in favor of a larger number of 'smaller' scope skills.  In my private
rule set, there are several different scope levels for skills depending on
whether you want your character to be passing good at an area of expertise or
*real* good at doing specific things.

RE: Skills in general:

I don't like the idea of a maximum number of skill levels attainable.
Traveller, as in the books, has the drawback that there is little or no skill
advancement.  What's your ideas on skill advancement?  I let characters have a
chance of increasing a skill every once in a while, and give them bonuses if
they've used that skill. 

RE: emphasis on combat:

This is a problem for most 'games'.  My campaign has very little problems with
that, but then the cast of characters are not your average save_the_universe
characters, either.  Most of the have at least one handicap, and they
"adventure", just staying out of trouble, and get bigger and better, which is
what I think adventuring should be, success or death, as it is in many games.

The problem I have with combat is that I ***like*** combat, slugging it out,
etc...  But Morally I have a problem with it.  I try to make the right and
wrong sides pretty clearly defined (even if the characters don't know it at
first) so that every one has a 'moral' to the story. 

The interesting thing about GDW Traveller et al games is that GDW has combat
systems for different levels, so playing your "go down in their armored air
raft and take out rebellious populations with Gauss Guns" might take several
weeks of gaming, or several die rolls.  The scope ranges from RPG to tactical
to strategic.

RE: starship encounter tables:

I'd like to see a more diverse encounter table as well.  What do you think
of putting individual ships in the encounter table, or maybe motivations?

RE: supplementary books:

Let's see, "High Guard", "Mercenary", "Merchants", "Scouts" are all good books,
I think.  "Scouts" is *manditory*, if you *really* want to do some *space*
exploration.  You can generate all the perculiarities of a star system, and
then send your players out to figure it out, and somewhere along the way you
have to come up with the answers for it!

RE: Lasers:

In the books, Pulse Lasers are given a -1 to hit, but are given two damage
rolls; they are also cheaper.  Great stuff, especially if you have the double
fire capability.

RE: Fuel:

Can anyone recouncil the fact that suposedly the Jump drives burn all the Jump
fuel at the start of the jump, with the fact that the Jump drives are not *the*
limiting factor of the powerplant? I.E. the rest of the equipment is just as
important in deciding how big you want your power plant.

RE: Varying Technologies:

Has anyone ever run a campaign where different people had widely different
technologies (Jump Drive vs. Black Hole Drive), not just varying Tech Levels?

Jim Baranski, DEC, Tewksbury MA.

-------- TML Message #13 --------

Subject: TRAVELLER LIST: Making YOUR NAME public
Date: 09 Jul 87 18:44:23 PDT (Thu)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 13


Is there anybody on the list adamantly against having the entire list of
people on the mailing list published?  This means letting everyone who is a
member of this list recieve the following information about YOU: City, State
(or Province for the Canadians on the list), E-mail address, and full name.

Not much you can do with that kind of information, eh?  Here's the information
about me as it would appear in the list:

	Portland OR	jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM (James T. Perkins)     

Personally, I'm for it, but as list administrator I want to know if you don't
like the idea.

Anyone who would prefer NOT to have their name published (i.e. remain
anonymous until the first time you make a contribution to the list),
please send mail explaining your desire to the address in my signature
below, and if you can (this is optional), please try to tell me why.
Then I would be able to explain to those who ask why I will not publish
the entire list....  Note that I will always keep personal mail you send
directly to me (traveller-req@dadla.TEK.COM) confidential.

If I don't hear any complaints before July 20, I will publish the entire list
of members at that time.  That gives you a week to decide.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
James T. Perkins		Traveller Mailing List Administrator
Tektronix Logic Analyzers	"Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP:	  {decvax,gatech,hplabs,ihnp4}!tektronix!dadla!traveller-req
INTERNET: traveller-req@dadla.TEK.COM
CSNET:	  traveller-req%dadla.TEK.COM@csnet-relay.CSNET


-------- TML Message #14 --------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 87 10:03:09 EDT
From: Charles Martin <gatech!seismo!yale!martin-charles@tektronix>
Subject: Improving skills
Archive-Message-Number: 14

How many Traveller games out there make use of the Instruction skill, or
allow characters to acquire new skills after the start of the game?  One of
the major differences between Trav and FRP is that the latter place great
emphasis on tangible, game-mechanics character improvement.  Do people try
to put this into Traveller?  Follow up question: why is it that Traveller
*players* (may of whom are also FRP players) are satisfied with relatively
permanent characters of widely disparate abilities, but complain loudly
when playing FRP under the same conditions?
- -------



-------- TML Message #15 --------

Date: 10 Jul 87 16:02 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E             <gatech!seismo!uunet!steinmetz!csbvax!DAVISJE@tektronix>
Subject: RE: Everything (Regarding Everything, hmm.... :-) 
Archive-Message-Number: 15


Date: 10-JUL-1987 15:55
>From: Jon Davis
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: RE: Everything (Regarding Everything, hmm.... :-) 
To: edison!uvacs!ncsu!mcnc!decvax!ihnp4!tektronix!dadla!traveller@kbsvax@smtp@tcpgateway
- --------

>Jim Baranski writes...
>RE:  Space generation Programs

>In the new (first/second) GDW Challenge magazine, there is a BASIC program for
>generating Star Systems according to the guidelines of BOOK 6 SCOUTS.  I have
>yet to type it in, but some day... 

FYI Jim, the program in Challenge 25 is designed to generate sectors 
under the original world generation system.  A BASIC program to generate
worlds as per _Scouts_ would probably be 4 or 5 more pages minimum!
Also, there are a number of bugs in the program. For example, in 
determining tech level, scout base presence, and even the basic UPP
stats for the world.  Check the program over against the rulebook 
before beleiving the legitimacy of any worlds you generate with this 
program.  I don't know if the later and more advanced program in issue 
27 or 28 suffers from the same faults.  Haven't used it yet.

BTW, it is possible to generate a world with a class A starport with 
any population UPP.  I guess those 10 to 99 guys have a lot of work
to do at (Overworked SubSector 0205 Busy A-567100-A).  I guess it 
will take a little longer than 24 months for that freighter you 
wanted to build there.  A legit modification to any system generation
is to bump up the population of a class A port to 3 or 4.

Can anyone give a half way convincing reason for an A port with a 
population index of 1?

>RE: Traveller Chronicles:
>
>If there is any interest, I have several tales of Traveller adventures which
>I could post, if you think it would be appropriate.  What do you think?

You should probably consult James Perkins regarding the length of the 
messages.  (If he doesn't contact you first.) If they offer some 
interesting ideas for our own campaigns and subplots, I would 
certainly like to see them posted, or you could directly e-mail them 
to me.  I enjoy a good tale.

I remember a time when a PC was in charge of securing a starship at 
port for a wealthy PC.  The security guard placed a "claymore mine" 
with a trip wire in the rampway to the ship.  It was well and good 
but the guard PC never bothered to tell the wealthy PC the security 
system he'd installed.  She didn't realize her employee's skills at
security until she walked up the ramp to her ship.

>I don't like the idea of a maximum number of skill levels attainable.
>Traveller, as in the books, has the drawback that there is little or no skill
>advancement.  What's your ideas on skill advancement?  I let characters have a
>chance of increasing a skill every once in a while, and give them bonuses if
>they've used that skill. 

I have no problem with a character developing any of his or her
personal attributes, such as STR, DEX, and INT, or skills within
reason.  But I think it is unreasonable to have a low INT and EDU
character who has high expertise in highly technical skills such as
Computer, Pilot, Engineering, etc. (Probably not so unreasonable for
Admin though :-) ) Expertise in the less technical skills (some may
debate me) of Streetwise and Brawling could be possible but adding
rules to account for that would be a waste of paper and simply
complicate the game. 

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Davis 				GE Corporate R & D
					Schenectady, NY
ARPA: davisje@ge-crd.arpa
UUCP: {decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!mcnc!ncsu!uvacs!edison!davisje

"You came in that thing?  You're braver than I thought!"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- End of TML Messages --------

